Harvelle vs. Winchester

So apparently Supernatural has this thing where it uses other people’s storylines as a commentary on the Winchesters’ storyline, either to emphasise something or to point out how reality varies or just to act as a substitute for the boys because there are just some things the boys won’t say/do which ‘normal people’ would (Ghostfacers anyone?).

So it struck me, watching the episode in which Jo and her mother are fighting because she wants to hunt…And its like the Winchester relationship with their parents; or rather Sam’s relationship with his father vis a vis Jo’s relationship with her mother. Ellen wants Jo to go to college and ‘be normal’. Jo complains that she’s the weird kid with the knife collection. Sam wanted to go to college and ‘be normal’, while John worried that he would be the weird kid without any protection. Jo is fighting with her mother and eventually her mother says, “If you want to hunt fine, but you can’t do it here”. John said, “If you go to college, then don’t you come back.” Both parents are coming from a place of fear; they’ve lost their spouses to the life and they just want to protect their children the best way they know how. But their children have minds of their own and want to do the exact opposite of what is expected of them. I guess we are to ask ourselves; which parent did right? Or else, last borns and only children are snot nosed spoilt brats who don’t listen. Or else, whatever you choose, you still end up dead/killing somebody…Or maybe, there are no right choices and people should just do whatever they want; they will anyway…

tall boys

p.s. another similarity, both kids are in love with Dean #kiddingnotkidding

75 responses to “Harvelle vs. Winchester

      • Haha- I too have a ‘is Wincest a thing?’ post on my bucket list. I don’t ship it, but there’s piles of subtext. How you interpret that subtext is pretty much up to the viewer…

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      • I think Jared and Jensen really encourage the shipping by really playing up the subtext in real life. Have you seen that clip where Jared attempts to kiss Jensen on some red carpet? and the video that Jensen posted on his facebook? I guess its ‘good for business’, but they’re almost too good at it *innocent face*

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      • I’ve only seen a few con vids, so no (I’ve only been a fan since February). I have, however, seen Playthings. Much sub, much text.
        I think there’s a lot of interesting dynamics in the Winchester relationship, though- one of them being the whole Dean-as-Sam’s-mother-figure thing that emerges towards the end of s8. There’re many ways of reading things.

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      • Yes there is definitely a Dean as mother vibe not just in season 8; I mean practically since season one. Its like…the second thing you notice after all the arguments. Actually the way I see it is that Dean is practically Sam’s everything. His caregiver, his counselor, his compass…you can see by the way that he’s just shiftless if Dean is not around. (demon blood drinking, then road drifting ‘hitting a dog’, then bulldozing everyone and everything to get Dean back in sn 10. He really did have no other frame of reference but Dean since he was 6 months old. His father doesn’t seem to have had that much of an impact on him.

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      • Absolutely. I’m planning on a ‘Dean as mother figure’ meta too actually đŸ™‚ I mean, in his childhood Sam basically had Dean and John to choose from for role models, and it’s obvious who he picked. I mean, that scene in Brother’s Keeper watched with that in mind… wow. But s8 was when it came through most strongly for me. I love The Great Escapist.

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      • I liked that Sam though…so open and childlike and Dean just went back to Mommy mode effortlessly…#bless
        kudos to Jared and Jensen for pulling that off with 100% believability.

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      • Yes! Heartbreaking and so real. Their relationship is utterly absurd because what they go through is just as absurd- but these guys just make it so believable. I was unsurprised to find out they’re best friends in reality.

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      • Also, it’s definitely interesting that when Sam’s dead (long-term), Dean is at least functional, and yet when Dean’s dead Sam goes totally off the rails. People often have Dean down as the more codependent one, and in theory that may be true, but in reality they seem to need each other equally.

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      • Yes, I noticed that too. Dean just kind of powers through…play through the pain, bury it in alcohol; Sam just basically breaks down in a highly negative and overt fashion. I think its because of how much he needs Dean that he hides from it so much.

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      • Sam seems to be fine with leaving on his own terms, as long as Dean is there for him to come back to. When it’s Dean leaving though… oh no.
        Very, very interesting…

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      • Yes! I mean, Soul Survivor. With the freakin’ hammer. I mean. Wut. And the innuendo. And the ‘does Sam want a divorce’.

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      • Yeah, and Crowley calling him on his jealousy…’You don’t care that he’s a demon, we’ve all been demons…” I laugh every time especially when he says, “and that’s what gets your chickens”…
        What about the hammer?

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      • It was just such a personal thing to use. Like, axes and knives are one thing, but with a hammer he’d’ve actually felt Sam’s skull cave in.

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      • Seriously, on my list of ‘fics to write one day’ is Soulless Sam and Demon Dean getting trapped in an elevator. I mean, obviously it would have to be some kind of magic elevator, since otherwise Dean would just go all telekinetic on it, but STILL.

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      • I’d read that.
        Of course since Soulless Sam can get out of anywhere its a double challenge. And he’d be trying to harness the power of Demon Dean instead of trying to cure him. The mayhem they could cause….*contemplates it*

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      • Do you write fanfic?
        Okay, so maybe not an elevator. I think it would probably have to be some kind of locked Hell box.

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      • I read everything except destiel; this is what I’m reading at the mo..
        http://archiveofourown.org/works/483454
        its transexual Sam. And this was a rec I found today:
        http://nightrider101.livejournal.com/64612.html
        its an apocalypse AU.
        Just finished this one:
        http://runawaydreamer.livejournal.com/8500.html
        which is some wincest raised apart brilliance.
        I also recommend “Stray”, by Morgan on AO3 which is incomplete. Its the best written fic I’ve read since http://gekizetsu.net/

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      • Oh my God, Stray- I’m reading that! I literally caught up with it like half an hour ago.
        You should check out Astolat’s stuff. And anything by Killabeez.

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      • Stray is pretty great, yes. Have you read A Monster By Any Other Name? Traumatic but so good.

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      • Yes. Isn’t even my usual sort of thing, but I teared up a few times… more than a few… over that one.

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      • Maybe that was when they started writing it? I know it’s been going on for a few years now.

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      • Yeah, the thing that fascinates me about such stories is the vivid attention to detail about someone’s mental processes. Its so amazing I don’t think I could depict how someone’s head gets all screwed up like that so vividly that someone can actually see it. It makes me really jealous…I imagine that they must have gone through it or know someone who has…same thing with blue skies from rain; have you read that one?

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      • That looks really good- I’ll get onto reading it!
        You ship anything besides Wincest?

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      • I don’t know if I ship ‘Wincest’ per se. I’m in love with love and of all the ships in Supernatural, that’s the one that rings most true for me, most plausible, most grounded in the realms of possibility. In short I like where I can see that the love is real…

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      • TouchĂ©. I have to agree with you there. I’m basically a multi-shipper… I theoretically ship Destiel but can’t work up much interest in reading the fics, I find Sastiel bromantically adorable, and anything involving Balthazar or Crowley is automatically fabulous. But yeah, Sam and Dean’s relationship, in all its incarnations, is the one that really holds water.

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      • Yes, though it tickles me how Crowley sexualises everything (‘you’re lying to Sam like he’s your wife, which kind of makes me your mistress’)…
        And Benny. Now I have heard things about homoerotic subtext there, so I guess I’ll have to look closer at s8, but I like them as friends, yeah.

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      • I LOOOOVVE Crowley’s innuendo filled conversation. But he’s totally team Wincest with it. :D. Yeah I guess they say there’s homoerotic subtext with Benny; I’ve seen that and I guess it comes from them being in purgatory together…doesn’t seem like they had time to get all sexy though. what with fighting monsters and all.

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      • The way he flirts separately with them both and then ships them is never not going to be funny.
        And frankly I think Dean could have homoerotic subtext with a fridge if he really wanted to.

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      • Same thing goes for Balthazar with the whole flirting/shipping thing. Just someone tell me why they killed him.

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      • Well, le Darkness has potential. It took all the archangels to beat it back last time, right? So if they were ever bringing Gabriel back…
        Sabriel is nutty, but I like it anyway.
        I miss sassy angels. I didn’t like Hannah. Naomi was pretty great though.
        But God, I HATED that Cas scene in Reichenbach where he bonded with the child over snot rockets.

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      • The whole angel arc in season ten was a yawn for me. The whole “look at humanity, isn’t it great?” movement passed me right by. I like Raphael’s hubris, and Balthazar’s hedonism and of course there is Metatron. Why do Angels work when they’re bad?
        I also thought the Darkness has the potential to bring EVERYONE back. Do over people!

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      • See, I loved the ‘look at humanity, etc’ thing when it was Gabriel telling it to Lucifer. THAT was awesome. And I did like Hannah ditching out of her vessel. But the snot rocket scene? No. Just. No. Get it away from me.
        I liked Cas more towards the end, though. Loved him lugging Metatron around. And Cas and Rowena were funny together. ‘She just called me a fish…’
        I like Cas best when he’s sociopathic and ferocious.

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      • Yes. sulky Cas is fun. And Gabriel has a way with words. It sounded sincere. In season ten it just sounded like a soundbyte from a smarmy advert. I love that kid though, her laugh was adorable. Cas just looked slightly creepy though.
        I love Rowena; she is just phenomenal with everyone. I especially love that ‘for Dean’ scene when she goes like “I hardly know the man”.

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      • Oh my God, yes! Rowena has just made herself absolutely at home in the SPNverse… it’s hilarious. She just swishes round sniffing at things and wearing blue eyeshadow and turning people into attack dogs.
        Also, Sam and Rowena. Such a great partnership.
        I seriously have no idea why some people don’t like her.

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      • I meant 44 total (counting the 14 part 1 chapters). Chapter 31 definitely wasn’t there a couple of days ago.

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      • Okay, I realise that for someone who doesn’t ship this ship I’m talking about it a lot. But it’s interesting! And it’s the most screwy, unspoken part of SPN, I think.

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